Friends of Old Time Banjo Tune Talk - Recently Updated Pages

A Tunes

banjerman — Sat, 08 Aug 2009 15:55:39 CDT

Bibb County Hoedown	Hubie says: Bibb County Hoedown" was recorded by a band called Seven Foot Dilly and His Dill Pickles, which was fronted by John Dilleshaw (c.1896-1941) in Atlanta in 1930. "Dilly," who was not really seven feet tall, but "a good six foot seven," was a guitar player, not a fiddler. He used several good fiddlers on his records, and on this one it was Lowe Stokes, formerly with the Skillet Lickers and, at age 22, the winner of the famous 1924 Atlanta fiddle contest over previous champion, 54 year-old "Fiddlin" John Carson. The original is reissued on the Document CD DOCD-8002, John Dilleshaw Complete Works in Chronological Order, and on other compilations. Bibb is the Georgia County containing the city of Macon as its seat. Formed in 1822, it was named for Dr. William Wyatt Bibb, who was later the first elected governor of Georgia. The Red Mountain White Trash recorded the tune in "A" with the title "Gideon" on their Chickens don't Roost Too High album. They say in their notes: "We originally learned the...tune as 'Bibb County Hoedown' in the key of A from Barry Schultz's tape 'In the Middle of the Night (When the Catfish Bite).' Later we learned that John Dilleshaw had recorded it in C in 1931 and that the Watkin's Band of georgia had recorded it in A in 1928 and called it 'Gideon,' which we opted to do ourselves."
Bonaparte Crossing the Rocky Mountains	Hubie says: I see you played "Bonaparte Crossing the Rocky Mountains," and I can't resist telling one of my favorite stories about that name. It seems that a folklorist was collecting in Tennessee in the 1930s, where one of his informants, an elderly fiddler, was called "Uncle John." "'Uncle John' delighted in playing for visitors and sooner or later he would say, 'Now I want to play you my favorite; I calls hit Napoleon Crossing the Rocky Mountains.' One day a teacher at Pine Mountain said, 'Uncle John, you mean Napoleon Crossing the Alps.' 'I don't know, maybe I do,' he replied. Some time later he was playing for a visitor and at his usual point announced, 'Now I want to play you my favorite; I calls hit Napoleon Crossing the Rockies. Some folks say Napoleon never crossed the Rockies, that he crossed the Alps, but historians differ on that point.'" (Allen H. Eaton, Handicrafts of the Southern Highlands. Dover, [1937] 1973, quoted by Andrew Kuntz.)
Jeff Sturgeon	Hubie says: I’ve recently taught this tune at one of my banjo workshops. John Salyer is indeed the source and you can hear him play it on Berea College’s Appalachian Center Cassette AC003, entitled John Morgan Salyer: Home Recordings – 1941-1942, Volume 1. It’s available from them online at $8.00. Or, you can hear it on the Digital Library of Appalachia web site, #32 in the list of Salyer tunes.
Old Kentucky Whiskey	Hubie says: The original "Old Kentucky Whiskey" came into the old-time revival repertoire by means of the recording by The Indian Creek Delta Boys on their Davis Unlimited LP, released in 1978. It is now available on a reissue CD, Indian Creek Delta Boys Vol. II. This Illinois-based band had Lynn "Chirps" Smith on mandolin with fine fiddle by Garry Harrison and wonderful banjo by Dave Miller. They got the tune from a Noah Beavers of Elkville, Illinois (born 1898), who learned it around 1915 (age 17) from an unknown Kentucky fiddler. I enjoy all of their music. Bill adds: Hubie mentioned that the Indian Creek Delta Boys music from the 70's had been reisssued so I went looking -- Spring Fed Records has Vol2 (which he mentioned) and Vol 1 for sale via the web: http://www.springfedrecords.com/SFR-DU-33042IndianCreekDeltaBoysVolume2.htm http://www.springfedrecords.com/SFR-DU-33042IndianCreekDeltaBoysVolume1.htm
Rattletrap	Leslie says: You guys are going to LOVE this tune by the time I’m done with you. Someone told me this was a new tune but on the Digital Library of Appalachia there’s a tune called Old Granny Rattletrap by Kentucky fiddler Manon Campbell. Sounds all most like the one the Hilltoppers do that Mac taught us. Also doesn’t it sound like a version of Fire on the Mountain a little bit? (the John Salyer version on DLA, for instance ) http://www.aca-dla.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/Berea&CISOPTR=583&REC=4 And here is another 1924 version of Old Granny Rattletrap by Uncle “Am” Stuart I LOVE this version http://honkingduck.com/BAZ/honkingduck78s.php?qt=year So is Rattletrap actually an old tune, really called Old Granny Rattletrap? I also saw a reference that it was called Granny will your Dog Bite but the versions of that tune that I’ve heard don’t sound as raunchy and good and sound more like some of the versions of Fire in the Mountain to me. Hubie adds: I think you’re right. It is an old tune that is sometimes called “Old Granny Rattletrap.” When I heard the Hilltoppers’ version from Mac, I thought it sounded like the Red Headed Fiddlers’ 1930 recording of “Far in the Mountain.” Now that I hear Uncle Am Stuart’s 1924 record of “Old Granny Rattletrap,” I’m convinced they are all the same tune. Gus Meade, who compiled that great discography of commercial records of traditional music agrees. On pages 705-06, he lists both Stuart’s “Old Granny Rattletrap” and the Red Heads’ “Far in the Mountain” among some 14 recorded versions of “Fire on the Mountain.” Stuart’s is earliest, and the list includes other titles taken from verses sung to the tune, such as “Hog Eye,” and “Sal, Let Me Chaw your Rosin Some.” Gus also mentions “Tip Toe Betty Martin” as a related title. I recorded a medley of these verses on “There Are No Rules,” and included “Hog Eye,” “Granny, Will Your Dog Bite,” “Johnny, Get Your Gun,” “Chippy, Get Your Hair Cut,” and “Hi, Betty Martin, Tip-Toe Fine.” Meade also mentions a field recording of “Old Granny Rattletrap” by North Carolina fiddler Bill Hensley, c. 1940s. “Rattletrap” appears to be an abbreviated version of the title “Old Granny Rattletrap,” and may have been taken from Uncle Am Stuart’s 1924 recording. The name is at least that old, and the tune older yet. (As “Betty Martin,” it is dated back to the War of 1812.) I would suspect an earlier date for the name, perhaps as a play-party tune or skit, because it sounds like a name which would amuse young folk. There might have been a funny verse about her. Leslie Adds: Another name!!! I just got the reissue of fiddler Marcus Martin's, "When I Get My New House Done" and recognized the first tune on it called "Daddy Bowback" as a Rattletrap-sounding tune. The liner notes say that Bascom Lamar Lunsford and Bill Hensley (see Hubie's note above) fiddled "Daddy Bowback" as "Old Granny Rattletrap."

D Tunes

rcogswell — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 07:26:27 CDT

Avalon Quickstep	Hubie says: A tune both Howard Jones and I learned at the Zane jams in the late 1980s. It comes from a recording made by Narmour & Smith for Okeh on June 7, 1930. This recording, reissued on County LP 529, Traditional Music of Mississippi, Volume 1, in 1975, appears to have been the sole source of this tune in the old-time repertoire. Both volumes are now available on two CDs, CO-3513 and 3514. David Freeman’s notes to Volume 2 of this set remarks on the number of unique tunes recorded by fiddler Will Narmour, many of which “are marked by subtle irregularities in meter, adding a certain interest and charm,” which were never recorded by any other fiddlers. This fact, and the localized, unusual names of their tunes, leads me to suspect that they may have been original compositions by Narmour, or at least known only in their immediate area. Freeman says that W.T. “Will” Narmour (1889-1961) and guitarist S.W. “Shell” Smith (1895-1968) were from Carroll County, near Avalon, Mississippi, the locality which was the source of several of their tunes’ titles. Avalon was also the home town of bluesman, Mississippi John Hurt, and he states that it was they who brought Hurt to the attention of recording companies. Will and Shell recorded 31 tunes between 1928 and 1930 in San Antonio, Texas, then recut 16 of the most popular ones in Atlanta, Georgia, in 1934. Among their other tunes, reissued on the County collection, are Carroll County Blues, Mississippi Breakdown, Sweet Milk and Peaches, and Captain George, Has Your Money Come? A list of all of their recorded tunes includes waltzes, blues, breakdowns and rags.
Banjo Tramp	Hubie says: Howard Jones and I learned this at jams in the late ‘80s, so the fiddlers at the jams probably got it from Ward Jarvis’ version on Heritage(Galax) LP 033, Visits, 1981. Jarvis, from Braxton County, WV, said he learned it from Ed Haley, the legendary and influential blind fiddler who played throughout that state and in eastern Kentucky. That would have to have been before 1951, the year Haley died, perhaps well before. Kenton Sears, another Braxton Cy. fiddler, recorded it for Gerry Milnes, who released it on Augusta Heritage Cassette AHR013. Issued in 1992, the notes don’t say when it was recorded. Gerry says it sounds to him like a vaudeville song, but he hasn’t been able to find a copy of it. I agree and have looked for it also, but with no luck. If it was well known in Braxton in the “old days,” it seems odd that Melvin Wine wouldn’t have played it too, but it’s not on the 263-tune Melvin Wine tune-list compiled by Jimmy Triplett. Jarvis’ version has probably been reissued on CD, somewhere. I’ve always thought the tune was odd because the two parts are the same, except that one part starts low and comes up to the melody, while the other starts high and drops down to it. Jim adds: On Banjo Tramp, Gus Meade's book lists an unissued Gennett recording of a song with that name, recorded in 1929 by Cecil Vaughn. I have no idea if it is the same melody that we play in a jam, but supports the supposition that our version started as a song. Cal State Fresno's website has this citation of a song with this name, but not the complete lyrics http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/folklinks.html
Crook Brothers Breakdown	Hubie says: The Crook Brothers were an old-time band that was a fixture on the Grand Ole Opry, for many years. I only have this tune on a cassette copy of a record by Trevor and Travis Stuart on fiddle and banjo, and copied it to one of my "tunes to learn" tapes. It was played at the Fiddler's Grove Festival in 1999 by the Grayson Highlands Band and can be heard on the net as an MP-3, but I can't find any more about it. If someone has the Stuart cassette, maybe the notes say something about it? Keith adds: The notes for the Stuart Brothers Pretty Little Widow CD say: "The Crook Brothers were stars of the Grand Ole Opry and called this tune Sally Ann. We learned it from our long time friend Faith Dominy." The CD is out of print, but Travis recently found some copies in a storage room.
Old Time Julieanne Johnson	Hubie says: I'm not familiar with this title with an "Old-Time" prefix, but usually that refers to the way a tune was played in the Galax-Round Peak area along the Virginia-North Carolina border before banjo player Charlie Lowe arrived and everyone copied his new, streamlined style. Thus, we have such names as "Old-Time Sally Anne," "Old-Time Backstep Cindy," and so forth. I believe this happened while Tommy Jarrell was a young man or perhaps a child.
Railroad through the Rocky Mountains	Hubie says: "Railroad through the Rocky Mountains" (no "ing") was collected on a field recording from fiddler Jim Bowles at Rock Bridge, Monroe County, Kentucky, in 1959 by folklorist D.K. Wilgus. The music was published in 2001 by another folklorist, Jeff Todd Titon in his book, Old-Time Kentucky Fiddle Tunes. Bowles said he learned it from his uncle, Wash Carter, who called it "Goin' Down to Shirley's," so it sounds to me like Bowles gave it the "Railroad" name. Bowles' original recording has been released on Marimac Cassette C-9060. The tune is similar to "Marmaduke's Hornpipe," "Grand Hornpipe," "Deer Walk" (the Doc Roberts' melody), "Rocky Mountain Goat," and "Cricket on the Hearth." (I think I like the name "Goin' down to Shirley's" best of all.)
Rocking in a Weary Land	Howard says: I think its an old Galax tune from Luther Davis or Kale Brewer. I will try to find out more about it if you are interested. I'm not aware of any commercial recordings. Hubie says: This tune is from Luther Davis, recorded in 1982 and released in 1986 on Heritage(Galax) LP 070.
Run Down Boot	Rich: Garry Harrison learned this tune from Pete Priest of Mattoon, Illinois. Pete, who was born in Breckinridge County, Kentucky in 1904, learned this tune from his father. [Source: Liner notes from the LP recording "The Indian Creek Delta Boys" (Volume 1) by the Indian Creek Delta Boys, DU-33029 (1976), re-released on CD as SFR-DU-33029 by Spring Fed Records.] A more recent recording of the tune is included on the CD “A Tribute to The Appalachian String Band Festival” [Clifftop] (Chubby Dragon #1001, c. 1995), performed by Lynn "Chirps" Smith, John Hatton and Dot Kent.
Rush and the Pepper	Rich: This is another tune collected by Garry Harrison, from Jesse James Abbott of Toledo, Illinois. J.J. said he learned the tune as a young boy in Missouri. This tune is on the "Indian Creek Delta Boys, Vol.1" CD. [See "Run Down Boot" above.]
Snake River Reel	Rich says: This tune and a contra dance by the same name were written by Peter Lippincott of St. Louis. I learned it in the mid-1970s while sitting in Pete's living room with a group of other St. Louis musicians. Pete was one of the founders of the St. Louis area contra dance revival (as well as its primary dance caller in the 1970s). I was happy to find the tune being played in this area, 30 years later!
Spring Creek Gal/s	Hubie says: "Spring Creek Gal" was on Bob Carlin's classic Banging and Sawing LP and cassette, Rounder #0197, 1985, produced by Bob, Gus Meade, and Bobby Fulcher. James Bryan is playing fiddle on that cut, Bob on banjo, of course, and Norman Blake is on Guitar. Bryan and Blake were then playing as "The Rising Fawn String Band," with Nancy Blake. If you're not into James Bryan, you have a treat in store for you. The album says, "Source: Al Murphy," who is an eastern Iowa fiddler, but I can find nothing about the origin of the tune. Perhaps Murphy wrote it, but if so, it's not on his CDs. It's one of my favorites.
Sugar in the Morning	Hubie says: This is a head-scratcher. I’ve never heard any such title anywhere in old-time music, but what intrigues me, is that it reminds me very much of that big 1950s pop hit by the McGuire Sisters, “Sugar Time.” I know this is ancient history for most or all of you, but it was a catchy tune and, I swear, it did sound a lot like the melody of Banjo Tramp, the part that begins high. And it had that phrase in the chorus, which went, “Sugar in the mornin’, sugar in the evenin’, sugar at supper time; be my little sugar, and love me all the time.” If it is the pop song, the claim by Rector Hicks that he learned it from Ed Haley cannot be correct, because he also said that he knew Haley only in the 1920s and 30s. Sugar Time, words and music by Charles Phillips and Odis Echols, was not copyrighted until 1956, after Haley had passed away and long after the time when Hicks knew him. Could it be that Hicks heard the pop song in the late 50s and thought it was the tune that Haley had played because it sounded so similar? Memory does play tricks like that on all of us. Hmmmm.
Thumping On A Well Rope	Rich says: This tune was written by banjo player Dave Landreth of St. Louis. It was recorded in 1991 on the Allen Street String Band cassette of the same name (Marimac #9406) and on Dave's 2002 CD "Chairs" (Oceana #OP004). Dave has a WAV file of the tune on his Web page: http://www.geocities.com/dave_landreth/ The cassette sleeve notes explain the title this way: "Playing a really dead low E string on a guitar, according to our friend Jim Lansford (fiddler for the Skirtlifters), is like 'thumping on a well rope', hence the title."
Uncle Henry	Rich says: This tune is from Arkansas fiddler Violet Hensley, who learned it from her father. She had forgotten the name of the tune, but "some guy at Dardanelle called it 'Uncle Henry'." In the notes for the CD "Traditional Fiddle Music of the Ozarks, Volume 1", Mark Wilson points out the similarity to the tune "Goodbye, My Honey, I'm Gone", recorded (in Volume 3 of the same series) by Bill Conley. Violet now recalls that her father called the tune "Goodbye, My Lover, Goodbye", but the name "Uncle Henry" is more commonly associated with her version of the tune.

Modal Tunes

rcogswell — Tue, 06 May 2008 13:26:14 CDT

Bonaparte Crossing the Rockies	See Hubie's notes under "A Tunes"

Home

LeslieGail — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 07:41:43 CDT

When we examine the old time tunes that we love to play, we often find that they have interesting, often surprising histories. This Wiki was created so that members of FOB (Friends of Old Time Banjo), FOB~West, Bill Babson's Friday Night Jam, FOTA and other local jams can share information about the tunes we play.

HOW TO CONTRIBUTE TO THIS WIKI
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Cool Tune Links

LeslieGail — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 07:40:14 CDT

Digital Library of Appalachia
http://www.aca-dla.org/dlamusic/dlamusic.html

Fiddler's Companion Alphabetical Files
http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/FCfiles.html

Missouri Traditional Fiddle and Dance Network
http://fiddle.missouri.org/music/

Old Time Key Of C Fiddle Tunes
http://slippery-hill.com/c/

Internet Archive filtering for "old time Appalachian"
http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=subject:%22Old-Time%20Appalachian%22

Field Recorders Collective
http://www.fieldrecorder.com/

C Tunes

rcogswell — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 22:21:20 CDT

Dixie Banner	Hubie says: I noticed that Bill Babcock’s last jam played a tune called “Dixie Banner.” They may or may not have known that this is an original composition by Tony Ellis, and was the title cut on his first recording, issued on Flying Fish Cassette FF90444 in 1987. It has been taken up by old-time musicians. (It has since been reissued on a CD: FF 70444.) Recently, it was recorded by Palmer Loux, but I was playing it with Mary Briggs back in the 1990s for both pig roasts and wedding recessionals!
Jump Fingers	Rich says: This tune is #55 in R.P. Christeson's "Old-Time Fiddler's Repertory" (Volume 1), and is one of the tunes in the accompanying 2-LP set of field recordings. Christeson recorded Nebraska fiddler "Uncle" Bob Walters playing this tune in 1949. He reports that Walters got the title and the tune years earlier from George Pounds, another Nebraska fiddler. It was also recorded by Missouri fiddler Lonnie Robertson and can be heard on the Rounder CD "Lonnie's Breakdown". (For sound clips, search http://www.rounder.com/ for Lonnie Robertson.) I also have a couple of cassette tapes with the Ill-Mo Boys playing this tune. A valuable Web resource which includes this and other tunes from Christeson's book, in standard musical notation and tablature, is http://www.mountainsentinel.com/fiddlebanjo.php

G Tunes

LeslieGail — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 09:15:10 CDT

Art Wooten's Hornpipe	Hubie says: This tune was collected from fiddler "Uncle" Bob Walters of Burt County, Nebraska, by R. P. Christeson in about 1950. Walters appears to have been the sole source of the tune. Christeson recorded Walters in 29 sessions over a ten-year period. Walters told him that Wooten was "...a Midwest fiddler of some note, years ago." The original version by Bob Walters is on the MSOTFA (Missouri State Old Time Fiddler's Association) Cassette # 106, Drunken Wagoner (1993), and the music is printed in Christeson's book, Old-Time Fiddler's Repertory, Vol. 1, Univ. of Missouri, 1973. Another tune, "Art Wooten's Quadrille," is also in that book and can be heard played by Bob Walters, again, on Christeson's recording, also entitled Old-Time Fiddler's Repertory (1976). The score published by Phillips in his Volume 2 was also transcribed from the Christeson recording of Walters' fiddling
Possum on a/the Rail	Hubie says: This one is really interesting. It was one of the very earliest of minstrel songs and was published ca. 1836 as “Settin’ on a Rail.” The cover had a very derogatory caricature of an African American, banjo in hand, sneaking up on a raccoon, asleep on the top rail of a fence. Until recently, the cover was available on line, but has now been removed, apparently. The tune has endured to this day after crossing into the traditional fiddlers’ repertoire, but the species of the critter on the rail has become confused. Although clearly a raccoon in the cover illustration, and so identified in the lyrics, it has become confused with an Opossum. The Mississippi Possum Hunters, with Lonnie Ellis on fiddle on this cut, recorded it as “Possum on a Rail” in 1930. You might think they changed the animal to conform with the name of their band, but others have made the same mistake without any such excuse. Dichter and Shapiro, for example, in their Handbook of Early American Sheet Music 1768-1889, describe the sheet as showing “...a fence where opossum is sleeping peacefully. For those who are interested in what happened, the song itself tells us that Mr. Possum done got away.” The next year, in 1931, it was again recorded, this time with the title “Raccoon on a Rail,” by the Hometown Boys, Bill Helms on fiddle with guitar and banjo accompaniment. You have a copy of the “Possum” title on Volume 1 of the Mississippi CD set you just purchased. The tune also reminds me of the one Melvin Wine played and called “The Possum’s Tail Is Bare.”